Isolasi dan Boiler Gratis Boiler gratis Boiler baru biasanya berharga 2.300, menurut Energy Saving Trust, jadi ini adalah freebie yang luar biasa. Jika boiler Anda tidak efisien, rusak saja, Anda mungkin ditawari perbaikan daripada boiler baru. Penawaran tersebut mencakup pemasangan, meskipun mungkin ada biaya tambahan jika seorang insinyur perlu melakukan pekerjaan ekstra misalnya, jika perlu bergerak atau Anda memerlukan radiator ekstra. Anda harus diberitahu tentang ini sebelumnya. Siapa yang bisa mendapatkannya Anda mungkin memenuhi syarat jika: Anda mendapatkan kredit pajak dan memiliki penghasilan rumah tangga kurang dari 16.010 dan. Anda menerima manfaat berbasis pendapatan, seperti kredit pensiun atau dukungan pendapatan, dan Anda memiliki anak, orang cacat di rumah tangga, atau berusia di atas 60 tahun. Anda tidak dapat mendapatkan boiler gratis jika Anda tinggal di properti asosiasi perumahan atau Adalah penyewa dewan Sebaliknya, ini akan diatur melalui skema mereka sendiri. Kriterianya rumit, jadi cara cepat untuk memeriksa apakah Anda memenuhi syarat adalah dengan menghubungi layanan saran Penghematan Energi dan menjawab beberapa pertanyaan mendasar di 0300 123 1234 (Inggris, Wales dan Irlandia Utara) atau 0808 808 22 82 (Skotlandia). Juga lihat kriteria penyedia dalam Cara mendapatkannya. Bagaimana cara mendapatkan boiler gratis Cukup hubungi penyedia untuk penilaian gratis. Anda bebas memilih perusahaan energi yang menawarkan kesepakatan yang Anda tidak perlu menjadi pelanggan. Semua transaksi sedang berlangsung, tanpa batas jumlah instalasi gratis. Jika Anda mendaftar, bersabarlah untuk mendengar pengalaman boiler gratis Anda. Apa yang ditawarkan oleh masing-masing provider E. on Terapkan secara online atau hubungi 0330 400 1183. Lihat juga kriteria kelayakannya. E. on menawarkan boiler pengganti jika yang Anda saat ini berusia lebih dari 5 tahun dan tidak berfungsi sebagaimana mestinya. EDF Energy Call 0800 096 8634. Jika instalasi boiler memerlukan kerja ekstra, seperti radiator tambahan, dalam beberapa kasus EDF mungkin meminta kontribusi terhadap biaya. Ini akan memberi tahu Anda sebelumnya. Npower Periksa apakah Anda memenuhi syarat di situs Npowers atau hubungi 0800 072 1741. SSE Isi formulir permintaan online atau hubungi 0345 078 3248. Lihat kriteria kelayakannya. SSE mengatakan instalasi tunduk pada survei. Jika mengganti boiler Anda tidak akan cukup menghemat energi untuk membantunya memenuhi targetnya atau ada masalah teknis, mungkin Anda diminta membayar sesuatu ke biaya. Jika ini terjadi, maka patut dicoba provider lain. Berapa banyak yang bisa Anda hemat dari The Energy Saving Trust mengatakan bahwa pemanas menyumbang sekitar 60 dari apa yang orang habiskan setiap tahun untuk tagihan energi, sehingga boiler yang efisien membuat perbedaan besar. Bergantung pada usia boiler Anda, yang baru mengilap yang baru bisa menghemat sampai 350 tahun. Boiler baru yang mungkin ada di atas banyak daftar harapan pembeli rumah, jadi ini bisa meningkatkan harga rumah Anda juga. Pertanyaan cepat Jenis boiler apa yang perlu Anda miliki Anda harus memiliki boiler yang rusak atau tidak efisien yang berumur minimal 5 tahun. Jika Anda memiliki baterai baru, yang bekerja dengan A atau B-rated boiler, Anda mungkin tidak memenuhi syarat. Ini diputuskan berdasarkan kasus per kasus melalui pemeriksaan gratis. Ini berdasarkan sejumlah faktor, termasuk efisiensi boiler, umur dan kondisi. Perusahaan energi biasanya hanya mengganti boiler gas, bukan minyak. Jika Anda belum memiliki boiler, Anda tidak bisa menginstal sistem baru. Berapa lama waktu yang dibutuhkan Perusahaan energi mengatakan bahwa biasanya dibutuhkan waktu empat sampai 12 minggu dari saat Anda pertama kali menerapkan pemasangan ketel. Pemasangan boiler biasanya memakan waktu dari beberapa hari sampai seminggu, meski bervariasi tergantung properti. Dinding bebas dan dinding rongga isolasi Dinding rongga dan isolasi loteng bernilai sekitar 800 dan dapat mengiris sekitar 300 dari tagihan energi setiap tahun, dan perusahaan energi menawarkannya kepada kelompok-kelompok tertentu. Permukaan dinding rongga. Sebagian besar rumah yang dibangun sejak 1920 memiliki celah antara dinding internal dan eksternal. Mengisi rongga dengan wol mineral isolasi dan busa berarti udara dingin dijauhkan, dan udara hangat tetap masuk. Asap loteng. Sampai seperempat dari rumah Anda lolos panas melalui atap, tapi Anda bisa mengatasinya dengan meletakkan wol mineral di bawah kasau. Siapa yang bisa mendapatkan ini Beberapa penyedia memberikan isolasi ke rumah yang sesuai tanpa mempedulikan pendapatan, sementara beberapa meminta Anda untuk menerima beberapa manfaat tertentu seperti kredit pensiun. Lihat kriteria kelayakan penyedia di bawah ini. Anda mungkin tidak bisa mendapatkan dinding rongga dan insulasi loteng gratis jika Anda tinggal di properti asosiasi perumahan atau merupakan dewan penyewa. Idenya adalah mereka akan mengatur untuk melakukan ini untuk Anda meskipun skema mereka sendiri. Cara cepat untuk memeriksa apakah Anda memenuhi syarat adalah dengan menghubungi Energy Saving Trust dan menjawab beberapa pertanyaan mendasar di 0300 123 1234 (Inggris, Wales dan Irlandia Utara) atau 0808 808 2282 (Skotlandia). Bagaimana cara mendapatkan insulasi gratis Hubungi penyedia untuk mendapatkan penilaian gratis. Anda bebas memilih penyedia yang tidak Anda butuhkan untuk menjadi pelanggan. Berikut adalah daftar enam penyedia besar yang menawarkan isolasi gratis. EDF Energi. Hubungi 0800 096 8634. Npower. Periksa apakah Anda memenuhi syarat di situs Npowers atau hubungi 0800 072 1741. Seberapa banyak Anda dapat menghemat Energy Saving Trust mempertimbangkan isolasi rongga biasanya menghabiskan biaya sekitar 500 untuk dipasang (termasuk pekerjaan bangunan), dan dapat menghemat rumah tiga kamar tidur rata-rata sampai 160 tahun pada Tagihan Insulasi loteng harganya sekitar 300 dan bisa menghemat 140 tahun. Pertanyaan cepat: Apakah rumah saya sesuai untuk dinding rongga insulasi Tidak semua rumah sesuai dengan dinding rongga. Menurut Energy Saving Trust. Rumah Anda biasanya cocok untuk isolasi dinding rongga jika: Dinding luarnya adalah dinding rongga yang tidak terisi. Rongganya paling sedikit 50mm. Batu bata atau bata dari properti Anda dalam kondisi baik. Dibangun sebelum tahun 1990 (kebanyakan rumah baru akan memiliki isolasi). Dindingnya tidak terkena hujan deras. Anda biasanya tidak akan memenuhi syarat jika. Anda tinggal di sebuah flat dan cant berkoordinasi dengan semua penyewa lainnya. Rumah Anda adalah kayu atau logam yang dibingkai, atau terbuat dari batu alam atau beton. Jika Anda mengalami masalah yang lembab. Energy Saving Trust mengatakan bahwa Anda harus menyelesaikan ini terlebih dahulu. Anda mungkin perlu membayar ekstra untuk perancah agar insulasi dipasang. Biaya ini tidak termasuk dalam beberapa penawaran. Dapat rongga isolasi dinding meningkatkan kemungkinan masalah lembab di rumah Bila dipasang dengan benar dan dalam sifat yang sesuai, isolasi dinding rongga dapat meningkatkan efisiensi energi dan memberikan penghematan pada tagihan pemanas rumah. Namun, ada sejumlah laporan tentang masalah lembab yang muncul setelah isolasi dinding rongga dipasang. Hal ini dapat terjadi pada sifat di mana insulasi dinding rongga tidak sesuai dimana dinding luar terkena hujan yang didorong angin. Kondisi ini paling mungkin terjadi di bagian barat negara ini, termasuk bagian barat Skotlandia dan barat Wales, dan bagian Cornwall, Somerset dan Dorset. Masalah juga bisa timbul jika pemasangan dilakukan secara tidak benar, sehingga celah dalam isolasi bisa menyebabkan kondensasi dan cetakan. Jika Anda mengalami masalah setelah memasang insulasi dinding rongga, pekerjaan apa pun yang dipasang oleh pemasang yang terdaftar dilindungi oleh jaminan 25 tahun yang diawasi oleh Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency (CIGA). Dengan jaminan ini, perusahaan yang memasang insulasi bertanggung jawab untuk memperbaiki kerusakan atau menghapusnya jika perlu. Jika perusahaan telah berhenti berdagang, tanggung jawabnya diteruskan ke CIGA. Saya tidak memenuhi syarat untuk isolasi gratis, bagaimana saya bisa mendapatkannya dengan murah Jika Anda tidak memenuhi syarat untuk skema di atas, cari installer di situs Asosiasi Insulasi Nasional. Sebagai patokan, Energy Saving Trust memperhitungkan isolasi rongga yang biasanya menghabiskan biaya 450 sampai 500 untuk dipasang, dan insulasi loteng sekitar 300. Rute DIY bisa bekerja lebih murah untuk isolasi loteng sekitar 150. Untuk bantuan lebih lanjut, majalah Homebuilding memiliki langkah - Panduan demi langkah untuk mengisolasi loteng Anda. Dapatkan Saran Uang Gratis Kami Email Apa artinya di atas Jika link memiliki dengan itu, itu berarti itu adalah link afiliasi dan oleh karena itu membantu MoneySavingExpert tetap bebas untuk digunakan, karena dilacak ke kami. Jika Anda melewatinya, terkadang bisa menghasilkan pembayaran atau keuntungan ke situs. Perlu dicatat bahwa ini berarti pihak ketiga yang digunakan dapat disebutkan dalam perjanjian kredit apapun. Anda tidak perlu memperhatikan adanya perbedaan dan tautan tidak akan berdampak negatif pada produk. Ditambah garis editorial (hal-hal yang kita tulis) TIDAK PERNAH terkena dampak oleh tautan ini. Kami bertujuan untuk melihat semua produk yang tersedia. 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FREE MoneySaving email Dapatkan email mingguan gratisan ini penuh dengan penawaran, panduan amp bebas spamnya Pelanggan Barclays tidak dapat menggunakan kartu dan melakukan pembayaran setelah kesulitan teknis Utilitas Pertama menaikkan harga tarif standar sebesar 9,7 - periksa SEKARANG jika Anda dapat menghemat Harga perangko untuk naik Bulan depan beli sekarang untuk mengalahkan kenaikan Atom Bank meluncurkan penghematan tetap terkemuka di pasar dapatkan 2 pada rekening satu tahun Rail Selatan membuka kompensasi sekaligus untuk semua penumpang yang berhak dapat Anda klaim 100s Berapa banyak langkah yang Anda lakukan di tahun 2016 yang saya lakukan 8.170.127 Latihan pelacakan kebugaran Peringatan penting bagi setiap karyawan di Inggris Maukah Anda mengambil 500 sekarang atau 1.000 dalam setahun Dan apa yang dikatakan tentang Anda Apa artinya Brexit untuk keuangan Anda di tahun 2017 Kuis MSE Pub 2016 Jawaban Bagaimana mendapatkan bonus poin Nectar di Sainsburys Untuk menghemat uang pada kebutuhan sehari-hari Anda BERHENTI SEGALANYA Setengah harga memilih dan mencampur permen di Wilko 10 gratis untuk diklaim pada hari ulang tahun Anda, termasuk kue, 5 Body Shop dan alis lilin Dapatkan 13 belanja untuk ju St 5.45 di Asda dengan lima kupon ini, termasuk sampo Pantre ampe Pantene Post-Valentines Day chocs murah dapatkah Anda menemukan emupdate: Nov 29 Berikut adalah salah satu artikel paling menarik yang pernah kami terbitkan. Apakah masih relevan sekarang dengan kemajuan dalam perbaikan karbon dan karbon Letkoni mendengarnya Oleh Kurt Gensheimer Jadi, Anda akan bergumam ke toko sepeda lokal Anda dan turunkan koin lebih banyak untuk sepeda balap asli pertama Anda daripada kebanyakan orang membayar keseluruhan sepeda motor. Anda baik baru dalam olahraga bersepeda atau Anda telah berkuda selama beberapa tahun, mempelajari tali pada bingkai aluminium tua yang berjarak satu musim dari tempat sampah. Anda telah menonton semua film klasik Musim Semi, Giro, Vuelta, dan Tur yang mencatat siapa yang menunggangi apa. Anda telah meneteskan air liur melewati rekan setimnya dengan tim tinggi yang memiliki lebih banyak serat karbon di atasnya daripada Stasiun Luar Angkasa Internasional. Anda telah melakukan semua penelitian Anda, telah menguji semua mesin dolar, mesin dolar karbon terbaru, dan Anda telah memilih pemenang Anda. Buku cek di tangan diokang dan siap menodai setiap dolar terakhir di rekening tabungan Anda, dan semua yang tersisa untuk dilakukan adalah bernegosiasi dengan toko sehingga Anda setidaknya memiliki sedikit uang tunai untuk membeli beberapa tabung bagian dalam. Tapi sebelum visi kemegahan Anda merajalela dan buku cek Anda menjadi lebih berongga daripada Landis Maillot Jaune, apakah Anda yakin karbon adalah bahan bingkai yang tepat untuk kebutuhan Anda Jangan salah, karbon memang memiliki kelebihan, namun kegemaran karbon baru-baru ini nampaknya Sangat terikat pada mentalitas kereta musik apa pun yang sedang dilakukan pros adalah apa yang ingin dilakukan massa juga. Memang di tahun 70an dengan komponen bor, di tahun 80an dengan banyak sekali gel rambut dan nuansa Briko, di tahun 90an dengan celana pendek lycra mengerikan yang dirancang agar terlihat seperti celana jins biru, dan hari ini dengan sepeda balap karbon. Dan mengapa karbon seharusnya tidak populer. Bingkai dan garpu memiliki berat kurang dari enam pak minuman, mereka memiliki kemampuan redaman jalan yang luar biasa, lebih kaku daripada balok I setidaknya pada awalnya dan yang terpenting, serat karbon memiliki faktor dingin yang tak terbantahkan. Sebagai bukti popularitas karbon, pembangun sepeda kustom yang membuat nama mereka di baja sekarang menyeberang ke karbon. Nama seperti Steelman, Serotta dan Independent Fabrications semuanya menawarkan kerangka karbon custom penghutang rekening bank. Photo Thumbnail (klik untuk memperbesar) formrevel rebolledo01 desalvoroad01 10 sycipcross04 8220 Jadi apa yang Anda miliki adalah pebalap 150 pound di atas sepeda yang dirancang untuk pilot 220 pound. Menurut Anda bagaimana perjalanan itu kaku? Rigor mortis kaku. Begitu kaku sehingga bisa menimbulkan karakteristik penanganan yang tak terduga, yang pasti menghasilkan pembalap perantara yang menghancurkan otaknya.882 Sungguh, aku melihat pembantaian di sisi jalan akibat keniscayaan ini. Semua poin bagus Tentunya tidak banyak yang akan mendengarkan karena mereka ingin menyesuaikan diri dengan kerumunan karbon atau merasa nyaman dengan yang mereka keluarkan untuk sepeda motor. Setiap kali kita membangun sepeda baja atau TI yang bagus dengan berat 16 atau 17 lb8217s, 8220kids8221 di dalam toko semuanya tercengang dan mengatakan sesuatu seperti 8220Waktu usia I8217m lebih tua, saya harus mendapatkan sepeda motor yang bagus.8221 Sisanya (beberapa tidak Semua yang lama) hanya tertawa dan memberitahu mereka untuk pergi ke depan dan membakar dolar tersebut. Juga, ekstra hati-hati saat memuatkan sepeda karbon di bagian belakang mobil Anda. Salah satu benda berbentuk tumpul yang salah letak akan membuat mesin balap karbon 5.000 merek baru Anda lebih timpang daripada kuda pacuan dengan tendonitis.8221 Haven8217t melihat ini. Dengan perawatan yang tepat, bingkai baja kemungkinan besar akan hidup lebih lama dari Anda, sementara kerangka karbon hampir tidak hidup lebih lama dari hutang kartu kredit Anda akan terperosok dalam terlepas dari bahan bingkai apa yang akhirnya Anda beli.8221 Haven8217t melihat hal ini juga. Baru-baru ini saya menerima pengiriman Warrior Listrik buatan saya oleh Vicious Cycles. Untuk kehidupan saya, saya tidak mengerti mengapa seseorang membayar sama atau lebih banyak daripada yang saya bayarkan untuk membeli sepeda dari rack. Sepeda motor saya tidak hanya dibangun sesuai spesifikasi saya, tapi saya bisa bekerja sama dengan pembangun untuk merancang cat yang sangat bagus. Anda tidak akan melihat motor lain seperti mobil saya di jalan. Saya mengatakan bahwa Anda bebas dari kelompok berpikir8221. Sementara saya menyukai keahlian dan kecocokan sepeda baja Jack Koehler custom saya, saya biasanya mengambil sepeda karbon saat saya ingin naik. Mengapa bekerja lebih baik? Sekarang, fit dari frame custom saya benar-benar sempurna. Dengan selotip dan beberapa komponen kreatif, saya mencocokkan dengan bingkai karbon CX-1 yang diproduksi saat ini. Bingkai karbon memiliki beberapa bit logam untuk daya tahan dan sementara itu tidak ada yang paling ringan yang bisa terlihat ringan dari pada bingkai baja saya. Jadi mengapa mengendarai sepeda yang lebih berat Bahan yang lebih tua seperti baja, aluminium atau titanium adalah keadaan seni sekali dan tetap bekerja dengan baik. . Begitu juga 56 Chevys. Kami menyimpan barang klasik kami untuk hari 8216 hari Minggu memamerkan rides8217. Saya melakukan hal yang sama dengan motor baja tua saya yang keren. Akankah saya membeli dan mengendarai Chevy 8216new8217 untuk pengemudi harian Nope8230tidak ada unit yang lebih efektif yang tersedia. Pos lama saya tahu, tapi saya menikmati artikel tersebut dan sebagai pengendara jalan baru saya menghargai baik karbon maupun baja. Komentar DH8217 di atas mungkin satu-satunya yang memiliki kelebihan sejati yang mengecualikan bias arus bisnis dan klasik 8220roadie8221ego. Jika Anda ingin keluar dari 8220group think8221 mencoba forgoing new dan rebuying sebuah sepeda berkualitas yang digunakan. Bingkai baja ringan (yang setara dengan 50 lebih berat daripada bingkai karbon ringan) tidak memiliki bingkai kasar yang sama dengan yang terus diketuk oleh penulis. Saya melihat bingkai baja ringan dengan penyok. Seperti karbon, Anda perlu memperlakukan rangka baja dengan hati-hati. Sementara kerangka karbon ringan Anda bisa retak karena kelalaian, kerangka baja Anda akan berkarat. Saya tidak setuju dengan Don Hanson. Bingkai baja lebih seperti mobil tua nostalgia yang memiliki daya tarik klasiknya, namun kebanyakan cara ini hanya ketinggalan jaman. Saya memiliki kerangka baja yang saya tumpangi dan suka dan suka naik. Tapi ada banyak barang flat-earth kuno di sini yang harus saya selipkan. Bingkai baja seberat 3 lb TIDAK sama dengan bingkai baja 5 lb dalam daya tahan. Tabung memang akan hancur. Aku menghancurkan bingkai baja 3,5 lb yang sangat bagus dan kusut seperti surat kabar kemarin8217. Karbon adalah bahan 8220it8221 untuk masa yang akan datang karena alasan yang baik 8212 ini dapat dirancang seperti tidak ada bahan lain di luar sana, itu kuat seperti apapun bila dirancang dan diproduksi dengan baik, dan ini terbukti sangat dapat diandalkan. Perahu karbon Hincapie tidak berhasil di Paris-Roubaix. Itu adalah steerer aluminium. Bill ini adalah percakapan yang sangat tua, tapi sebuah pertanyaan. Berapa mil yang bisa diharapkan untuk keluar dari kerangka serat karbon yang dirancang dengan baik dan yang dirancang Misalnya, jika saya berlatih 200 mil seminggu dengan sepeda karbon, saya akan melakukan 10.000 mil dalam satu tahun. Apakah itu tentang kehidupan kerangka karbon yang baik saat berlatih dengan kecepatan berapa pun Siapa pun yang membayar lebih dari 2,5 k untuk sepeda, dan tidak mendapatkan sepeda khusus - dari bahan APAPUN - adalah kacang. Marc, banyak orang menyesuaikan ukuran stock frame dengan baik. Jika bingkai yang diproduksi massal memenuhi kriteria Anda dan biaya 2499, siapa Anda untuk menilai apakah itu keputusan yang baik Sepeda saya bukan perhiasan, dan saya tidak berinvestasi di dalamnya karena kelangkaannya. Dulu saya mengendarai sepeda motor. Aku tidak punya satu pun. Dengan penilaian sebagian besar orang (sebagaimana terbukti dengan penjualan material untuk sepeda kelas atas), Ti atau karbon lebih baik daripada rangka baja yang kokoh. Itu hanya data objektif yang didasarkan pada jutaan pilihan pembelian individual, bukan bias saya. Bias pro-baja yang diilustrasikan oleh banyak orang di sini hanya mencerminkan kebutuhan yang berbeda dan penilaian properti yang berbeda. Sedangkan untuk argumen durabilitas yang salah: kebanyakan orang tidak memperbaiki baja bengkok. Trek 5200 saya yang berusia 18 tahun, meskipun bekas luka dari banyak penyalahgunaan perjalanan selama bertahun-tahun, tetap menjadi kuda terpercaya yang saya anggap semantik sepeda yang diproduksi dengan teknik konstruksi abad ke-19. Saya tidak takut delaminasi lebih dari yang Anda takut karat-sekalipun. Kedua masalah ini hampir tidak ada pada frame terbaru tahun ini, terlepas dari contoh terisolasi yang digunakan oleh para idealoger dalam usaha untuk membuktikan keunggulan material mereka. Naiklah apa yang Anda suka, dan jangan buang waktu Anda untuk meyakinkan orang lain bahwa bahan bingkai Anda lebih tinggi dari yang mereka inginkan. Penilaian total adalah pilihan pribadi. Itu bukan data yang obyektif 8211 Anda memasukkan asumsi mengapa volume penjualan itu seperti itu. Volume penjualan frame cf dan Ti yang tinggi dapat dengan mudah dipengaruhi oleh faktor-faktor seperti popularitas, semudah itu dapat dipengaruhi oleh titik data teknologi seperti umur panjang dan daya tahan. Penilaian total adalah pilihan pribadi, namun intinya dari artikel ini adalah untuk mempertanyakan mengapa persepsi populer mengenai tren valuasi terhadap sepeda motor. Jika Anda benar-benar mempercayai pernyataan akhir Anda, maka artikel tersebut seharusnya tidak menjadi masalah bagi Anda. 12 Januari 2017 Tempat di Jason 8211 domba dengan sepeda (berlawanan dengan kelompok Industri 8216Sheep On Drugs8217) int membeli apa yang mereka katakan, atau jual, agar sesuai dengan 8211 melihat-lihat dan Anda bisa mendapatkan sepeda penanganan yang jauh lebih baik. Yang sebenarnya bisa hampir sama ringannya (dan beberapa mungkin berpendapat lebih ringan) terbuat dari baja. Lebih banyak keuntungan bisa dibuat dari sepeda karbon, Dan lupakan saja berat badan, fokus pada handling. Saat ini 2017 dan orang masih memilih, tidak semua pilihan yang mereka tahu adalah karbon 8211 berikutnya adalah baja. Oh, dan bergeraklah di atas Karbon, ramalan saya adalah bahwa Graphene yang terstruktur busa akan menjadi yang berikutnya. Saya adalah satu sepeda baja custom custom 8211 sebuah Waterford R33 8211 yang beratnya di bawah 18 lbs. Saya harus membayar untuk mencapai berat ini 8211 Catatan Campuran di seluruh, engkol karbon FSA K-Force, batang karbon ITM UnicoUnica, batang penguat, set kepala Chris King, velg Selle Italia Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL, Speed Play X18242s, karbon Easton SL90 Forkand dan pelana Selle Italia SLR Ti dengan berat 165 gram 8211 namun bingkai karbon yang ditipu dengan konfigurasi yang sama akan menghabiskan banyak atau lebih banyak sepeda saya. Sepeda motor ini rides seperti mimpi 8211 mulus dan responsif 8211 dan berkat ujung depan karbon, jok dan desain frame motornya menyerap sebagian besar penyimpangan jalan dan tidak memiliki buzz yang bisa saya rasakan. Selain itu, sepedaku benar-benar mendapat tanggapan yang penulis bicarakan dari pembalap lain dan pembeli sepeda. Sepeda saya indah dan langka (berlomba hijau dengan panel putih sekolah tua), dan sebagian besar penggemar di ketahui mengapresiasi sama seperti sepeda motor lini produksi yang mereka temukan. Saya telah melakukan perjalanan dengan sepeda dan juga memasangnya di toko-toko besar di Denver, San Diego dan Boston. Mekanisme mekanik menyukai motor dan tidak percaya betapa ringan dan menyenangkannya mengendarainya. Singkatnya, rig saya memiliki setiap faktor WOW sebagai sepeda karbon di jalan. Saya menabung untuk sepeda lain, tapi bukannya karbon, itu adalah titanium Seven atau IF 8211 yang belum saya tentukan. Saya suka artikel ini karena saat ini saya mengendarai sepeda baja sepuluh tahun dan saya berpikir untuk pergi karbon saat musim gugur ditutup sekitar tahun ini. Saya mendapatkan semua poin dari keuntungan baja dan sepenuhnya berlangganan barang-barang yang tidak dapat Anda ganti dengan teori apa pun. Kerangka karbon tampak berisiko bagiku, untuk contoh potensi kerusakan yang diberikan dalam artikel ini. Tapi di sisi lain, tidak banyak dari kita yang bisa mengunjungi pameran dagang atau memburu pembangun sepeda adat. Di mana kita bisa melihat sepeda motor semacam itu yang disebutkan di sini Mungkin yang lebih penting lagi, akankah perjalanan uji coba dilakukan Bahkan googling 8220Bayliss8221 hanya menghasilkan tautan hangat, dan tidak ada apa-apa tentang pembangun itu sendiri. Saat ini, sepeda motor modern terdengar mengundang tapi mungkin tidak bisa diakses oleh kebanyakan pengendara. Saya rasa sepeda motor yang bagus seperti tabung amp audio yang bagus. Yeah, teknologi mutakhir teknologi memiliki manfaat, tapi ada beberapa hal tentang baja (dan tabung) yang hanya klasik dan benar, sesuatu yang tidak dapat diukur, hanya dialami. Bagi mereka yang hanya mengandalkan pengukuran dan data ilmiah, pernyataan itu akan terdengar seperti pemikiran datar-bumi dan itu baik-baik saja. Intinya, ada kelebihan dan kekurangan untuk karbon, ti, aluminium, dan baja. Ride apa yang kamu cintai 24 September 2012 I8217m mengendarai tahun 2003 LOOK KG461. Ini bukan karbon penuh (menggunakan lugs aluminium), tapi saya suka perjalanannya dan saya membandingkannya dengan baja. Bukan kebiasaan, bukan baja, dan saya mendapatkannya untuk kesepakatan yang menakjubkan. Tempat itu kaku, nyaman, dan dari apa yang telah kudengar, kertas itu dibangun lebih kuat dari kerangka karbon penuh lainnya. Sebuah mie 8220wet adalah apa yang terjadi. Beberapa poin bagus disini. Pada 6821758243 dan 230 lbs. I8217m di ujung kurva bel. Baru-baru ini saya menjual sepeda motor Calfee dan menggantinya dengan sepeda motor IF. Calfee adalah Cadillac, bingkai karbon yang menghasilkan getaran jalan acak seperti bisnis tak berbekas. Belum lagi, itu seksi sekali untuk dilihat. Tapi cukup kaku untuk turun dengan baik dan memiliki masalah goyangan kecepatan yang menyedihkan (bahkan tidak bisa memasukkan jersey saya dengan kecepatan 15 mph tanpa motor yang ingin turun). Saya akan mencatat pengalaman negatif karbon saya sampai fakta bahwa saya bukan standar standar untuk pengendara sepeda pada umumnya. Yang sedang berkata, rangka karbon terasa tahan peluru. Itu selamat dari satu kecelakaan yang baik tanpa cedera, dan saya pikir saya bisa saja melemparnya ke tangga setapak tanpa efek buruk. Tambahkan agar Calfee bisa memperbaiki bingkai yang rusak dengan tidak terlalu banyak usaha dan masih banyak. Saya hanya menganggap karbon sebagai bahan sepeda masih muncul sejak kecil. JIKA Crown Jewel di baja tidak memiliki masalah seperti itu (dan turun seperti itu di roda) hanya dengan hukuman kecil £ 0,11111,1 (yang merupakan 0,5 dari keseluruhan paket saat Anda memasukkan saya). Semuanya semulus karbon dan kepercayaan diri lebih jauh menginspirasi pada keturunan. Tapi sebagai pilot yang telah menangani pengembangan bahan kedirgantaraan, alasan sebenarnya saya beralih adalah mode kegagalan. Karbon gagal dalam satu cara: tiba-tiba dan bencana (Airbus kemudi, siapapun). Baja bisa menyentak, menekuk, retak, dll tapi Anda pasti tahu apa yang akan terjadi. Saya enggan mempercayai hidup saya dengan sebuah materi yang mungkin bisa terurai dengan cepat. Ada kelebihan untuk kedua bahan tersebut, dan seiring dengan teknologi kerangka karbon yang matang, selera pribadi akan mengatur pilihan bahan sebanyak komposisi. Namun saya jatuh cinta dengan kerangka baja saya dan akan mengendarainya selama bertahun-tahun. Siapa yang memberi tikus bahan apa yang lebih baik Apakah benar-benar penting jika orang menyukai karbon atau baja lebih baik Apakah kita benar-benar perlu meluangkan waktu untuk berdebat dengan selera pribadi Apakah orang-orang yang memiliki sepeda karbon akan membaca artikel yang ditulis dengan buruk ini, memiliki wahyu, dan Pergi membeli sepeda baja karena dari waktu ke waktu, puluhan ribu kita termasuk 8220Pros, menjadi bodoh dan lupa bahwa baja jauh lebih baik Kurt Gensheimer, pergi dengan sukarela di dapur umum dan melakukan sesuatu yang sangat penting. Kapan terakhir kali salah satu dari kita pergi secepat itu Jangan pernah. Sepakat. Video itu berumur 15 tahun. Saya pikir karbon telah menjadi sedikit lebih baik sejak saat itu. Baja akan mematahkan lasannya. I8217m hanya mengatakan8230 mendapatkan beberapa info terkini. Miliki semua baja Columbus yang membungkus Bianchi dari awal 908242 dan aluminium Bianchi (2001). I8217m mencari aluminium dengan tempat duduk karbon atau semua karbon. Sepeda baja tidak akan kemana-mana dan memiliki keunggulan tapi tidak mendekati percepatan yang ditawarkan aluminium. Apakah saya balapan No8230 tapi ketika membuat lampu hijau ada bedanya. Tabung kursi karbon untuk masing-masing sedikit membantu dalam mengeluarkan beberapa buzz jalanan dan saya mencari garpu karbon untuk baja karena alasan yang sama. Semua orang akan memiliki pendapat mereka tapi saya tidak yakin apakah yang akan terjadi lebih baik daripada yang lain, tapi saya yakin satu hal lagi. Dalam sebuah kelompok, saya mencoba mengikuti kenaikan harga dengan harga yang pantas. Pengorbanan bingkai menyerap sebagian energi saat mencoba berakselerasi. Jadi baja saya bagus untuk wahana di negara ini, jalur sepeda, komuter, dan tugas berjalan, dan mengapa saya memilikinya dilengkapi dengan engkol triple. Sepeda latihan saya yang saya inginkan dan butuhkan agar cepat dan akan menggunakan bahan atau kombinasi apa pun yang nyaman namun efisien dan saya kira baja sesuai dengan pesanan itu. Itulah untuk kebutuhan Anda kurasa. Baja kembali dengan kekuatan dan ada minat baru yang nyata baik pada sepeda baja saat ini maupun klasik. Fakta bahwa ini sudah menjadi posting ke 29 artikel yang di bahas. Bawa Masi klasik Anda, Pogliaghi dll ke acara Cycling USA saat ini dan orang-orang akan lebih memperhatikan motor Anda kemudian pemenang lomba Cat 1-2. Kami sekarang memiliki 4 kriteria baja musim panas ini, dan meskipun lapangan terbesar kami hanya 15 pembalap, balapan baja adalah yang paling populer saat ini. Untuk 95 persen pengendara, baja paling masuk akal, tapi kita semua terpengaruh oleh pemasaran. Termasuk saya, selain armada baja, saya memiliki beberapa sepeda plastik sendiri. Untuk tahun 2010 kami akan menerjunkan semua tim balapan Baja untuk bersaing berdampingan dengan orang-orang karbon. Simak foto balapan dan pembalap kita saat ini dan juga beberapa gambar klasik di MenofSteelRacing. Ini mengingatkan saya pada Monty Python 8220Lihat seperti bit witch8221 (dengan sepeda Carbon fiber menjadi penyihir). Saya telah memiliki dua bingkai Lihat (555 dan 585 Ultra) dan keduanya seragam sangat baik. Mereka kehilangan kekakuan mereka seiring bertambahnya usia, dan terbengkalai, dan secara seragam lebih tinggi dari hal lain yang pernah saya hadapi sebelumnya atau sebelumnya. Jika Anda menyukai sepeda baja, maka beli sepeda motor. Tolong jangan mencoba dan meyakinkan orang lain meskipun mereka salah karena mengendarai karbon. Semua kekeliruan yang disebutkan selama ini hanya tanggapannya. Karbon adalah bahan berteknologi tinggi dan jauh lebih ringan. Kenyataan bahwa seseorang perlu melakukan tindakan yang tidak patut dilakukan (baca banyak bagian pembelian tunai) untuk mendapatkan penghematan bobot sepeda motor yang setara (tidak cukup) mengatakan semuanya. BTW, saya juga memiliki motor khusus Ti8221. Sepeda yang bagus tapi dorongan datang untuk mendorong, saya akan meraih Look 585 setiap saat. Sepeda Ti hanya terasa lamban dibandingkan dengan itu (komponen yang sama, dll.). Hanya saya .02 Nru 8230 kerjakan pekerjaan rumahmu temanku. Luangkan lebih banyak waktu untuk membaca daripada menulis. Trek tidak memublikasikan karbon mereka sampai SETELAH Trek meminta mereka untuk itu. Lihatlah tingkat karbon Trek: satu titik putih, satu DOT HITAM, satu DOT RED. Bukan kebetulan, Columbo. Hai, artikel menarik, komentar menarik. Saya gagal memahami bagaimana bingkai baja custom bernilai baik saat satu pembangun dikutip menghabiskan 100 jam per frame 8211 pada 40 jam (tingkat biaya konservatif untuk bisnis) yang setara dengan USD4000, saya bisa mendapatkan sepeda kerangka karbon dengan 105 untuk NZD3000, Kurang khusus dll Juga, memiliki punggung yang buruk dan melihat upgrade Wheeler 7100 berusia enam tahun saya yang mengurangi kualitas daya tarik karbon bagi saya. Artikel provokatif bagus dengan beberapa poin bagus. NASA, Formula 1 dan Boeing menggunakan baja 8211 melihat baut dan bantalannya8230) Pikirkan bahwa landing gear adalah carbon Value bukan mutlak. Mungkin baja custom isn8217t 8216value82178230 besar tapi sekali lagi karbon kustom akan lebih buruk Bagi para pecinta mobil di luar sana, jika Ferrari menghubungi Anda dan menawarkan untuk menjadikan Anda F430 kustom dengan spesifikasi dan warna favorit Anda dan merancangnya khusus untuk tubuh dan mengemudi Anda. Gaya dan Anda benar-benar mampu membelinya tidak mau Anda mengambilnya Mungkin pertanyaan tentang pilihan yang didorong oleh 8216value8217 seperti Toyota sama sekali bukan intinya. Mungkin itu yang dibuat untuk ANDA yang penting terlepas dari materinya. BTW, saya memeriksa situs web John Slawta8217s (bingkai Landshark) dan melihat bingkai khusus yang Levi Leipheimer minta dia buat. Levi bisa mengendarai beberapa sepeda karbon terbaik secara gratis dan tebak apa yang dia pilih untuk membeli Interesting8230 Hal yang hebat tentang artikel ini memang percakapannya yang dirangsang. Saya memiliki baja tua, baja modern, semua aluminium dan semua sepeda karbon. Saya suka setiap sepeda untuk atribut tertentu. Setiap sepeda membawa senyuman saat aku naik 8211 karena aku suka naik. Dan saya tidak berpikiran sempit tentang apa yang saya tumpangi. Dulu saya juga punya mentalitas yang bagus, kembali pada hari-hari balap saya. Aku punya apa pun yang populer pada saat itu. Sekarang aku tidak peduli apa yang berpikiran berpikiran sempit berpikiran wannabe. Setiap olahraga fanatik dan hobi memiliki jenis pola pikir kelompok yang sama 8211 karena meskipun mainannya, itu digunakan oleh manusia. Bagi saya, materi bingkai lebih berkaitan dengan misi perjalanan. Heck, George Hincapie memiliki sepeda motor yang sangat bagus yang ia tumpangi secara teratur hanya untuk kesenangan semata-mata karena KARENA itu bukan mesin balap yang saya dapatkan dari motor bohong karena perjalanannya sangat nyaman dengan wahana sepanjang hari di pegunungan, di mana berat badan Memang membuat perbedaan. Sepeda khusus ini memiliki sudut yang tidak jauh berbeda dengan yang biasa disebut 8220sport tourers8221 8211 bukan bingkai pembalap crit-racer. Bridgestone pertengahan tahun 80-an saya seorang penunggang olahraga klasik baja sejati. Tapi perjalanannya kurang sesuai secara vertikal dan tri belakangnya lebih fleksibel dibanding sepeda saya yang lain. Tabung ketebalan variabel TIG 90-an akhir pada siklocross Bianchi membuat sepeda yang benar-benar kaku yang beratnya sama dengan usia 90-an saya dari semua tulang rusuk tulang Cannondale aluminium (diuji sebagai bingkai produksi paling kaku yang dibuat pada saat 8211 dan naik seperti itu). Masing-masing bahan memilikinya. Ada banyak variabel yang membuat tumpang tindih untuk setiap jenis. Baja custom memiliki tempatnya, terutama untuk pengendara randonee yang menginginkan tabung top-tube klasik yang lebih panjang dari pada kursi. As for the comment that there are no worthy steel bikes being made 8211 that is because you hang out at a shop that focuses on racing only 8211 not giving the customer what is best for them. I see those bikes being sold by the-soon-disillusioned-customer on Craigslist every day. Pick your LBS carefully. For instance, the Raleigh Clubman is a very nice riding steel bike available at LBS in most cities of any size. Very classic look, too, yet with modern components. Very smooth ride. As a juxtaposition, the other day I was at my local shop when a woman came in with her Lemond steel ride from the late 90s. She was tired of the stiff ride and wanted to try a Cannodale cf like her friends ride. She really knows her bikes, riding 200 miles a week in the summer and done a number of bike tour vacations. The shop didn8217t have a 48 cm frame in stock for her, but did have the same model in aluminum with cf fork. She loved the ride, rode it 3 times that afternoon, and then agreed with us that she had no need of a cf bike 8211 which with the same setup would cost 350 more for nothing gained. She got the bike fitted the next day and rode away smiling. For me, that proved the point that great engineering is More Important than the material of the bike. There are cf bikes that ride like crap for anyone except a Cat racer. There are steel and aluminum bikes (and Ti) of the same vein. And there are great riding bikes made in each material. Know your mission and buy accordingly I8217m drawn to the value of craftsmanship and unique frames as opposed to mass produced, but the author8217s claims about the longevity of steel have to be questioned, thus raising some doubt on his other assertions. My friend who has a beautiful custom steel bike just showed me the rust spots coming from the inside of the seat tube to the outside, while commenting he expected to be forced to get a new bike in another year or two. Whenever he gets caught in the rain he has to take his seat post out and do a gun barrel-type swabbing job to dry out the inside of the seat tube in order to preserve the bike for as long as possible. He rides constantly, but maybe it won8217t be an issue for you if you don8217t get wet very often. Well, this debate has gotten interesting, and has covered most of the interesting points, but not all of them, so I8217ll weigh in. For the record, I presently own 2 carbon bikes (a cheap lugged one, and a Cervlo R3 SL), and a custom titanium mountain bike (700c as well, for that matter). Custom geometry makes a lot of sense for mountain bikes, and not so much for road bikes. A mountain bike8217s handling represents a whole slew of trade-offs an order of magnitude more complex than the geometric decisions made when designing a road bike. When8217s the last time you saw a road bike with much of anything other than a 73 degree headtube (in normal sizes, of course, where altering headtube angle and fork rake is not necessary) Ok, pretty much never. Road bikes, on the other hand, don8217t really have weight-distribution-dependent steering, nor do they have funny terrain-specific handling trade-offs brought on by steerer angle, or any of that other all-terrain nonsense. Unless you8217re a freak, custom road geometry makes little to no sense, and for the record, I8217m 6821778243 with a 39.58243 inseam, and ride off-the-shelf compact road geometry with no problems. Go invest in a fitting, not custom geometry. Now, on to materials If you8217re a serious recreational rider and have some dosh you8217d care to be parted from, titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making). Barring that, you should be riding aluminum if you8217re more interested in keeping your budget down. FEA-driven hydroformed frame members just don8217t exist in the ferrous bike world last I checked (at least not to the extent that they do in aluminum-land). Short of titanium or true high-end carbon, nothing can touch aluminum for its ability to be purpose-tuned at minimal cost. If you8217re not racing and want some ride comfort, you should invest in a forgiving carbon fibre seatpost and kiss your Fred-dom goodbye and buy some 25c (or larger) tires, rather than pretending that frame material can make anywhere near the same magnitude of difference (there are some exceptions to this in carbon-land, but they cost lots of money). And on to the truly hardcore: If you8217re actually racing, you probably already know about comfort trade-offs. Ti and steel are simply not options, as nobody8217s managed to make a titanium or steel frame transfer power as efficiently and handle as precisely as aluminum alloy or carbon fibre can (some titanium gets sort-of close, but not close enough). If you8217re on a budget, you8217re buying aluminum with the stiffest bottom bracket you can find, and maybe considering some sort of aerodynamic trickery (there8217s a reason the Cervlo Soloist Team conquered so many races before the competition clued in). If you8217re not, there is absolutely nothing that can match the power transfer of a carbon frame without being a 6-pound-plus aluminum brick, at which point you might as well just stick some cranks and drop bars on an old engine block. While we8217re talking carbon, let8217s not get carried away. Trek are great-quality frames, and if you8217re the type of racer whose legs could whip up a good meringue they8217re damn light (but so are lots of others 8212 honestly, and this is personal preference, I8217d take a Scott instead if I were in the market for such a bike) and suitable for your riding style, but if you8217re the type of rider who cares how stiff their crankarms are, Trek quickly falls off the radar and frames like the S-Works Tarmac, Cannondale8217s top-of-the-line, and most of Cervlo8217s offerings (and a good number of others, I8217m sure, so don8217t take my as arrogant enough to think I8217ve found all the good frames) quickly find their way to the surface. If you8217re really, really curious where the numbers lie here, Specialized has been kind enough to provide some test figures for most of the top-notch products out there (with a few conspicuous omissions, and some not-so-subtle tipping of the 8220scales8221 on their stiffness-to-8221module8221-weight comparison) here: specializedOAMEDIApdfcatalogs08FACTBroch. pdf (page 7) And on that note I8217m out for the night. I hope some of this has been at least somewhat informative as to the realities of bike frame trade-offs these days. Incidentally, I didn8217t buy the R3 SL for its weight. Great post Paul. Can I ask, what is the life of an aluminium racing frame compared to carbon racing frame Quote from Paul: 8220If youre actually racing, you probably already know about comfort trade-offs. Ti and steel are simply not options, as nobodys managed to make a titanium or steel frame transfer power as efficiently and handle as precisely as aluminum alloy or carbon fibre can8221 Sounds more like opinion than fact. Check out the Pegoretti Big Leg Emma to see a perfect example of steel being more than adequate to deliver power: I agree with the claim that you can get more stiffness out of a carbon or Al frame for a given weight but who said stiffer is always better Numbers from Specialized or any other company are usually biased and I8217m reminded of the old saying, 8220there are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics.8221 Also reminds me of an article from Keith Bontrager a while back who demonstrated why having a super stiff BB is NOT energy efficient in all cases. Look it up8230 some simple trig explains it and Sean Kelly on his flexy Vitus back in the day is living proof8230 Here8217s an experiment to try: Jump up and down as high as you can on a concrete sidewalk for about 5 minutes. See how you feel. Now do the same on a trampoline. Knees feel any different Perhaps the analogy isn8217t perfect but here8217s the point: just because something is unyielding underneath you doesn8217t make it more efficient or enjoyable to ride. The debate continues8230 Interesting frame, but I still doubt (I haven8217t ridden one, but if I can I will) it8217s addressed BB stiffness. Those stays will be stiff under compression, but there8217s nothing there to prevent the BB shell from flopping all over the place (just like my cheap carbon frame does, and just like a Trek Madone did when I took one out for a test). I8217ve certainly ridden both carbon and aluminum frames with stays that big, and they don8217t manage to do a lot, even though aluminum should in most cases provide more stiffness in the same external cross-section, as it8217s necessarily thicker-walled. Carbon lets you do clever things like building a conic (or similar, see S-Works Tarmac SL2 and most of Cervlo8217s offerings for examples) seattube, which is the primary member capable of resisting BB flex. You can also brace the BB shell itself from a great distance with a big blob of a teardrop-crosssection 8220bottom bracket8221. This is flat-out impossible with any drawn or extruded metal tube products. Sufficient (but still not equal) BB stiffness can be accomplished in aluminum, at a moderate weight penalty, whereas any fabrication of steel or even titanium tubing would be freakishly heavy to accomplish the same thing (if you could form them like you can carbon the story would be entirely different). As to Specialized8217s numbers8230 they tell a funny story. They8217ve obviously tried very hard to make their frame look fantastic (duh), but notice how they cannot for the life of them shake the R3 from nipping at their heels, and how they8217re forced to use a proprietary crankset with integrated BB to finally 8220beat8221 it on 8220module weight8221 so they can claim they have better stiffness-to-weight (which they don8217t). And of course, take the 8220vertical compliance8221 number with a grain of salt: Cervlo goes around pimping their thin seatstays as being dramatically more compliant (very much like what Specialized is trying to tout), but the reality is that most of the perceived ride quality of their frames ACTUALLY comes from frame flex at the seat cluster, which the thin top ends of the stays do affect. 8220Custom geometry makes a lot of sense for mountain bikes, and not so much for road bikes.8221 Thats a pretty silly thing to say. It would also be news to an awful lot of people. Since people tend to be on their road bikes for very long periods of time the slightest sizing errors can cause all sorts of issues. Head tube angle How about top tube and seat tube length Sizing can give you weirdly long stems which gives the bike an unbalanced feeling as can other compensations made by fitting. 8220titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making).8221 Yes I prefer titanium. Power transfer is a bunch of baloney and that has been proven time and again. Neither my Litespeed Vortex nor my Moots have any creaking issues. 8220Specialized has been kind enough to provide some test figures8221 I8217m sure they have. Oh, and one more thing: I8217ll certainly conceded that riding on the flat or on mild rollers is pretty much indifferent to stiffness, as handily demonstrated by many successes on not-so-stiff frames. But, I8217m a big guy and climbing already sucks enough for me that I like to have as little extra fatigue from hammering up a steep hill as physically possible. 8220Since people tend to be on their road bikes for very long periods of time the slightest sizing errors can cause all sorts of issues. Head tube angle How about top tube and seat tube length Sizing can give you weirdly long stems which gives the bike an unbalanced feeling as can other compensations made by fitting.8221 I take it you8217re buying custom road forks then, too. This is a big silly argument: A road bike needs to fit you well when it8217s pointed in a more-or-less straight line, because it8217s usually pointed in a more-or-less straight line (even in fast switchbacks you aren8217t doing the kind of ridiculous crap that technical singletrack can incur). 10mm of stem length doesn8217t make or break a road bike8217s ability to be piloted down whatever course you8217ve chosen, but it does on a mountain bike. So having the - right - top tube length and whatever else within a very small margin on a mountain bike determines whether you can have both correct fit AND useful handling in a wide variety of situations. And what8217s this silliness about head tube angles being part of custom fit When8217s the last time anyone found a good reason for building a frame (read: normal road frame, not a TT frame or something) with ANYTHING other than a 73degree43mm-rake fork, OTHER than eliminating toe overlap on smaller frames The need for anything like this is a crock, as road bikes are generally ridden on surfaces without any substantial curvature, and they don8217t have various amounts of front suspension travel (not to mention rear-axle-to-perpendicular-to-steerer distances) which then go on to affect steerer angle, front wheel canter for deflection purposes, and fork trail, and whatnot. Road bikes, for all intents and purposes (this doesn8217t cover CX bikes, obviously) are ridden on FLAT surfaces, and therefore do not need to take into account a particular rider8217s preferred range of handling compromises as terrain does such interesting things as changing steering trail, as - does - happen on a mountain bike. Yes, road bikes - do - need to 8220fit8221 better for comfort purposes, because you usually ride them longer and their tires are less forgiving and whatever, but unlike a mountain bike virtually all of these cases can be cured by moving your seat and bars around. As far as titanium goes, you might as well go custom because for once you8217re looking at a product that - is - manufactured as if it were custom whether you choose to specify custom geometry or not (at least as far as buying Ti from this continent goes). Well, so far we8217ve established that custom size framing makes no sense whatsoever. It is neither necessary for fit8230nor is it cost effective. Secondly we8217ve extablished that, if durability is the issue, then titanium is the only choice. All the others have lifespans8230including steel which rusts. If titanium is too expensive, then aluminum is the best choice for the serious enthusiast who rides hard on the weekends but doesn8217t necessarity race. Aluminum can be hydroformed into exotic and purposeful shapes inexpensively. It is relatively durable, will not rust, can be repainted easily and does not require the tender-loving care treatment of Carbon Fiber. Furthermore, Aluminum can be interfaced with Carbon Fiber components, such as a seatpost and fork, to give a rather excellent ride without all the headaches. For the weekend enthusiast who likes to hammer down once in a while, aluminum will outperform steel or titanium, given its stiffness. And lastly, due to the exotic and purposeful shapes8230it has the most style. And since it is indeed a metal, it offers the full lustre of its paint8230unlike CF which does indeed look a bit plastic. Its good to have thought this all through. So while steel may be real8230aluminum really is a steal Paul: 8220If youre a serious recreational rider and have some dosh youd care to be parted from, titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making).8221 Eerrr8230yes and no. Yes Ti8217s power transfer is crap in 8220most cases8221. No I out sprint a friend of mine 2 days who has the same (or more) leg power who rides a CAAD 9, i8217m riding a Lynskey R3308230 how about that for validation Agree that High end Alu and carbon beats Ti hands down in the power transfer department but it8217s a relative issue because a lot of other things come into play that will affect the out come. Nope8230 my R330 don8217t creak either8230 Yeah, yeah, guys. they don8217t creak if you put Ti Prep everywhere you8217re supposed to (my Ti MTB only makes funny noises in its drivetrain, thankfully8230 errr, wait that8217s not something to be thankful for8230) Back to racing8230 it8217s not so much that a flexy bottom bracket reduces how much instantaneous power you can lay down on the road, as you might expect. The effect is that, including the wind-up and unwind, each pedalstroke takes a longer time, and your muscles start to suffer from it. In conditions like serious climbing or extreme headwinds, where you have a substantial deceleration between pedalstrokes, you do actually 8220lose8221 some power to the frame wind-up. Accordingly, your top speed in a sprint is unlikely to change (and you8217re probably spinning pretty high RPMs anyways), but you8217ll lose some time on any moderately long climb, and I doubt you can - hold - that sprinting speed for quite as long, as every pedalstroke sustaining your top speed is taking just a little more out of your legs than it otherwise could be, nor can you reach that speed quite as fast as you could with less frame wind-up. Of course, if you8217re not racing none of this matters, at all. You take a rest, and then you kick your buddy8217s butt again, and declare yourself victorious before any difference in muscle fatigue might try to tip the tables the other way. And hey, his CAAD9 has got to be heavier than good Ti, so that8217s probably tiring him out just as much (if you8217re not on level grade all the time) 8212 as well as the much harsher ride reducing his power output through fatigue. Quotes from Paul: 8220Interesting frame (Pegoretti Big Leg Emma), but I still doubt (I havent ridden one, but if I can I will) its addressed BB stiffness. Those stays will be stiff under compression, but theres nothing there to prevent the BB shell from flopping all over the place8221 8220whereas any fabrication of steel or even titanium tubing would be freakishly heavy to accomplish the same thing8221 I8217m curious, how big are you Paul The Pegoretti frame has a 32mm seat tube and what looks like a 35mm down tube so you can8217t be serious when you say that BB will be flopping all over the place. For those who remember former 7-Eleven powerhouses like Davis Phinney and Sean Yates they did perfectly fine with 28.6mm seat tubes. Besides, from a power transfer standpoint the huge chainstays make more of a difference than any side-to-side BB flex would. I8217ll admit, to get a super stiff frame made out of steel it would exceed 4.5 lbs and probably over 4 lbs for Ti but if a rider is that big how the heck does 5 lbs or less of metal qualify as freaklishly heavy. How much extra weight is a water bottle, like 1 12 lbs Whoa, better not carry a Camelback8230 Paul: 8220Accordingly, your top speed in a sprint is unlikely to change (and youre probably spinning pretty high RPMs anyways), but youll lose some time on any moderately long climb, and I doubt you can - hold - that sprinting speed for quite as long, as every pedalstroke sustaining your top speed is taking just a little more out of your legs than it otherwise could be, nor can you reach that speed quite as fast as you could with less frame wind-up. Of course, if youre not racing none of this matters, at all. You take a rest, and then you kick your buddys butt again, and declare yourself victorious before any difference in muscle fatigue might try to tip the tables the other way. And hey, his CAAD9 has got to be heavier than good Ti, so thats probably tiring him out just as much (if youre not on level grade all the time) as well as the much harsher ride reducing his power output through fatigue.8221 Interesting point but like i8217ve said earlier, it8217s got a lot to do with other things that comes into play8230 Design body weight is the first to come into mind. I8217m not a big guy, 173cm at 73kg riding a 54cm top tube length R330 Ti frame is more than capable to handle my weight and output. In addition to that, the design of the R330 has bucket loads of tube butting, shape manipulation and different tube diameter sizes strengthening different areas of the frame8230. all this has got nothing to do with quality Ti because CAAD9 is the top frame in Cannondale8217s alu range hence frame material becomes equal in their own comparison. Back to Racing Riding method has got a lot to do with how the frame reacts as well. A musher will appreciate a super stiff frame because they can gain more from a more 8220compliant8221 frame, the same goes for crit racers but for long haul races, most will appreciate a slightly compliant frame because your body will perform better from not getting a beating by road bumps and vibrations. If you race long distance enough, you8217ll know that spinning (high RPM) is much better than mushing and by spinning (assuming that you know how to cycle in circular motion rather than pushing your paddles, a lot of ppl don8217t realize they don8217t cycle the right way) does not create that wind-up and unwind motion so much to a degree that it8217ll change the angle of the BB to sap your energy. Most of us will tackle a long climb or a steep climb by spinning high RPM or high gear, i doubt any of us has legs of contador or Andy8217s to mush our way up a hill. Back to Racing Riding method has got a lot to do with how the frame reacts as well. A musher will appreciate a super stiff frame because they can gain more COMPARED TO A compliant frame8230. the same goes for crit racers8230 Regarding the new stainless steels: For those who don8217t know, the tensile strength for 953 is through the roof If the tubing manufacturers make some tubes in more moderate thicknesses (858 instead of 747 or 636) these things would be pretty dent-proof as well. Sure these things may never go into the sub 2 lb category but if we8217re talking the difference between carbon and steelTi frames being around 2 lbs then is it really that bad to have an 18-19 lb road bike I guess I must be old school too from the days when a 21 lb steel Pinarello was a standard pro-level bike8230 This article made some good points but it forgot too many. The reason for buying steel bikes goes beyond this. Durability is hands down better but not just from crashes or mistakes loading or shipping the bike but also from a fatige standpoint. That silly carbon bike doesn8217t ride the same as it did when it is brand new. Carbon breaks down and loses its stiffness overtime. The steel or ti bike on the other hand will ride pretty much the same 50 years and 100,000 miles down the road. The other reason is comfort. You think that carbon is comfortable, ha I say. Try riding it over on a chip seal or harsh road compared to steel or ti. The big difference steel and ti flex not merily absorb. Don8217t mistake the dead feel on a fairly smooth road for comfort, steel is going to give you some feedback and connection with the road its the rough road that is what is going to matter at the end of the day. I love specialized as a brand and the Roubaix is hands down the best riding carbon bike out there but if you take the same vertical compliance test specialized does to compare to other carbon bikes and do that compared to Serrotta, IF, or Waterford that is built for even a 200 lbs rider. The results will surely amaze you. Lets face it most of us don8217t race at least not seriously and at the end of the day would you really rather have a bike that weighs 1 pound less or something that will last and be more comfortable. This is a pointless debate. It8217 all about choices and the fact that there are so many option available to the bike-buying public is a good thing. The fact is that there are examples of wonderful bikes made from all sorts of different materials just as there are truckload of crap bikes made from all sorts of different materials. Over the years I have had many thousands of miles on bikes made from lugged steel, tigged steel, bonded aluminum, welded aluminum, 32.5 Ti, 64 Ti, lugged carbon, and monocoque carbon. The truth is, there was never any appreciable difference in my speed, comfort, or enjoyment once I got them set up right and got used to the handling. Tire pressure, saddle, pedals, and drivetrain setup are really where it8217s at8211 get fit right, run quality components and you will like your ride no matter what the frame is made from. Thanks Twain Great links. There8217s actually a company down here in San Diego (Escondido) called KVA (kvastainless). They8217ve been making stainless steel tubing since the 19508242s for the military and for wheelchairs. Their stuff is top shelf, but not as well known in the bike industry as Reynolds and True Temper. They8217ve started delving into frame building, and I8217m planning on doing a follow up article about the virtues of stainless steel in a bicycle application. Since KVA has been working with this material longer than both Reynolds and True Temper, and are new to the bike world, it might be very interesting to hear their perspective. Kurt G. implies that Steelman Cycles embraces carbon construction, I don8217t believe this is the case. Steelman (Brent Steelman) still makes awesome steel frames. His carbon frames were an experiment, not even on his web site. The only carbon parts he offers are carbon fiber seat and chain stays and forks, specifically upon request. His work is simply the best. My frame exhibits tremendous craftsmanship. The shaping of the tubing, the geometry, the fit, and nobody lays down a better tig weld in my opinion. Want lugs He builds those frames too. Checked out that KVA Stainless website and spoke to some guys there. Their new tubeset is apparently stronger than OX Platinum but imagine it in stainless The price looks to be more cost effective than Ti and the weight8230 well, check out the website. They8217ve got a photo of a frame hanging on a produce scale. If I8217m reading it right and it8217s not BS it looks to be around the 2 lb mark Could this be the next Ti or Carbon killer Oh and the tubes are 100 Made in the USA if that matters8230 Just replaced my full carbon fork with steel. Why Because I have a steel frame. Columbus triple butted foco. I figured, If the bikes steel, the fork should be, too. It8217s nice to look down and see a steel fork. Also replaced a 200 gram saddle with a brooks. So now my bike weighs 1 12 pounds more. I8217m 215. I plan on getting down to 180. I like the feel of the steel fork more than the full carbon. Also, I coulden8217t get past the babying I had to do with the carbon. Don8217t over tighten, Don8217t scratch, Don8217t clean with this, Don8217t get grease on the steerer tube, Check constantly for hairline cracks, If hit, Internal damage unseen may have taken place etc, etc, etc. Steel fork maintenace, If there is no rust, your good to go. Same with frames. Later. Oh, and don8217t use a stack height of more than one inch on carbon steerer. By the way, just took bike out with new steel straight bladed road fork which replaced a full carbon. Here8217s my review: Steel allowed a little more road buzz. Not bad at all, just a little more. Bumpy roads, steel fork softened hits more then the carbon did. Big hits, like pot holes, steel did better. Down hill, steel tracked like it was on a rail, the carbon fork would shimmy if I lifted my hands off the bars. That could be from the steel fork having a slightly slacker head angle. Also, I noticed the steel fork flex, not side to side, just in and out, some. I8217m thinking, the carbon just stayed rigid and stiff when the steel one gave a little. Overall, not a huge difference either way, just a little more piece of mind knowing the steel fork probably won8217t snap off becuae my stack height is one inch, or I hit the brakes really hard, ( Go to busted carbon for that story). As for the weight difference, didn8217t notice at all. Of course, I ride with a camel back with anywhere from 50 to 80 ounces of H2O at a time. Hope this was helpful. Later. I do not race nor have a custom bike for years my ride was a Raleigh Gran Prix from the 708242s, which gave me tens of thousands of miles of touring enjoyment, until I backed my car over it(I have ADD, what can I say) My replacement is a Raleigh Technium 440 from the middle 821780s, and surprise It8217s better than my GP was in its best days. Advances in technology are certainly real, but what satisfies any individual rider is, well, individual. I may have missed it, but the writer didn8217t mention that while frame weight difference may be 50 steel vs. carbon, the difference between frame PLUS rider is almost negligible. Want a lighter ride Lose a few pounds and ride the same bike. thanks a lot for putting the bike plus rider weight diference on the table. make the caculation i8217m 195 pounds, plus 3 pounds waterbotles, plus 1 pound shoes plus one pound clothes, let8217s say few things in a backpack. lets say around 200 pounds. and let take a verry light carbon bike for 15 pounds and a not so light bike for 21 pounds. so one side we have 215 pounds the other 221 pounds the diference is 3 percent increase. fucking 3 percent i8217m 195 pounds and i could get down to 170 with an ideal weight and a good ( verry good tranninglong bike rides and diet and no more beer ) so the lose of wight woul be 221 before and 191 after diference of 16 percent. so as the harvey allen just sayd, if you want a lighter ride, loose some weigt. If you8217re comparing apples to apples then the difference between a carbon bike and a steel one with the same parts and wheels is more like 2-3 lbs. So 215 versus 218 lbs That8217s 1.4 Alright, so having invested in a Cervelo R3 SL, and finally having ridden it since last posting here, I must disagree even more strongly with the touting of steel as the ultimate comfort frame material. I8217ve ridden plenty of steel frames, from 821770s Raleighs through brand-new bespoke Italian names. And then, on Sunday, I discovered it8217s possible to have a road bike you can sit down on - ALL OF THE TIME-, barring of course the need to lift the wheels over some road hazard. I also discovered that the stiffest bricks of aluminum road frames I8217ve ever ridden were pathetic wet noodles in comparison to this 2-pound beast. There seem to be some people going around making foolish generalizations about high-end carbon. I8217ve ridden top-end Madones. While they8217re light, and the front end is just great at incredibly high speeds (the minimum requirements for a Tour-grade frame), they aren8217t in the same ballpark as far as ride quality or hair-trigger power transfer. Don8217t go around assuming a Jaguar is a reasonable basis for drawing performance conclusions about an Aston Martin, ja (This also applies to carbon forks8230) September 1, 2009 matthieu: 8220an buy a good sadle, that s where your ass is all rid long 8221 Well, not quite. My ass is shaped all wrong and I8217ve yet to find a saddle that8217s really comfortable on its own. However, I8217ve just recently found that I can run damn near any piece of crap saddle on my new(er 8212 I have two now) carbon frame (certainly not on the old one though) and NOT have to deal with the usual discomfort from whatever saddle I8217ve decided to put up with for the day. You8217re bang-on about weight. Beyond keeping the weight of the bike closer to the ground and gyroscopic effects of cornering on heavier wheels (or likewise when dealing with a crosswind 8212 try some light hoops in a crosswind and tell me it8217s not a world of improvement), bike weight doesn8217t mean squat. It means something if you8217re racing, and that8217s it. Even if you8217re lagging slightly behind on club rides it8217s probably because your legs or bike fit suck, not because your bike weighs more than the addict that8217s parked beneath the spandex-clad ass up ahead that8217s slowly distancing itself from you8230 It8217s getting a ways away from the frame materials discussion, but let8217s talk for a moment about buying speed (I8217m ignoring obvious things here, like clipless pedals): First and foremost, if you can8217t do it reasonably well yourself, get a professional fitting (I haven8217t, and at this point could probably do with the marginal improvement it would represent), as this will not only give you better biomechanical performance but will make you more comfortable, and a more comfortable rider can put out more power (unless you8217re Lance). Second, ditch the backpack, tshirt, baggy shorts, etc. and get some lycra. Aerodynamics mean everything if you8217re actually intent on moving forward at a higher speed. Further to that, invest in some deeper rims if you haven8217t already 8212 I won8217t run anything shallower than about 25-30mm, for any purpose. And don8217t forget some tires that not only roll well at a useful pressure (given your body weight), but that let you hold that speed through corners 8212 right now I run Conti GP4000S and they suit this purpose well. Next, go ride harder, and discover the subtle and not-yet-significant (until you get in better shape) ways in which your bike compromises your performance potential here and there, and then MAYBE consider upgrading further once you can spank at least some of the Cat38242s in your club. If you want to know why I8217m still bored by steel and titanium as road frame materials, go take a top-end S-Works or Cervlo R-series or Scott or something similar out for a test ride, instead of blindly insisting that steel8217s better (as well as titanium) because it rides nicer than some arbitrary, expensive, and boring 8220high-end8221 carbon frame. There8217s expensive carbon, and then there8217s good expensive carbon, and there8217s an incredible amount of distance between the two. real steel real racers The new Steel is the best period, ask any knowledgeable frame builder, ti is a close second, carbon just a another way to get an empty wallet and short life bicycle but i guess if one has more money than the crown jewels and would like to look quite fast while getting launched off the back Peloton like a hot rock. thats ok at lest you8217ll look like a pro. sure right oh you paid more than the national budget for the last nine years and that plastic bicycle you just bought for a Googol ( A googol is a large number. that is a one followed by one hundred zeros )so you paid a ton lollies and what did you get for all those simoleons spent a ill fitting, harsh riding bicycle that has a short lifespan. man you only live once so why end up in Recession, save those lollies for later and discover real cycling, meet my best mate Mr modern steel unlike Mr plastic or carbon 8220alias Mr carbon plastic fibber8221 (notice that i spelled how it should be written)(1) My best mate Mr modern steel will give a quite smooth and predictable ride in all cycling conditions from worst to best.(2)you wont need worry about ones health when Mr plastic fibber frame expire date comes up. because he8217s not up to the task at hand, because my best mate Mr modern steel will be here long after were gone, so no worries about hospital mates he8217s quite dependable.(3)cycle fit is very important and Mr plastic fibber offers no proper sizing whilst Mr modern steel has the proper fit only limited to the master cycle builder. (4) losing all them pints off ones belly and training proper will have a greater effect that saving a few grams off with Mr plastic fibber (5)All the lollies that one has saved by riding Mr modern steel you could finely get rid of those quite daft looking spandex jean look cycling shorts and give the dustman the quite large and ridiculous looking cloth covered styrene foam helmet. Regards from father time steel December 16, 2009 Typical riderracer since 1986. I bought Aluminum in 1986 and 2010. Carbon in 2009, 2010 and 2011. Ti for one year. Steel for about 6 years, etc82308230.I would say Aluminum is the worst. Harsh, fast and then somehow dead, and even a nice fork and wheelset won8217t get it to the top of the list. Ti was ok, nothing special. steel would feel the best at times (super smooth, stable in descents, and just loved to cruise at 19 mph forever8230.). Carbon early on was dead and only light, wasn8217t super impressed, unless i wanted to sprint or go straight up a hill. The newest carbon can do it all8230.carve turns, go super fast, destroy descents, cruise all day, and the RampD spent by top-end firms (millions the custom guys don8217t have) is worth it. Ridden a lot since the 808242s. The oldest road bike in my stable is a Columbus SL (steel for you newbies) from the mid 908242s I also have an aluminum bike from 2001. Now shopping for either Ti, Carbon or wood (no, seriously, wood, like from Renovo). I think. Or maybe it8217s back to steel. There8217s more to the ride than just the frame material. The Al frame I have feels lighter and zippier by far. I used to think about getting rid of my steel because I would always reach for the Aluminum when I went for a ride. Then I cleaned up my steel and gave it the same tires and pedals as my Aluminum and I find myself reaching for the good ol8217 steel bike just as often. The steel bike now feels smoother, more comfortable and more 8220connected. And it is ultra stable compared to the rather twitchy aluminum bike. I live in very hilly country, so you8217d think the aluminum would have an advantage for weight, but no. It seems like once I get cranking on the steel, I can just motor up them bumps. On the aluminum, I accelerate fast, it8217s light, it8217s responsive, but it feels like I lose momentum on every pedal stroke. I8217ve a daily commute with about 12-13km of hills and I8217ve timed my runs with both bikes and there is NO significant time difference nor do I feel any more tired with one vs. the other. BTW, I8217m also in very wet climate, the steel frame doesn8217t seem to have suffered too much considering its age. Rust isn8217t my problem here. For my next bike, I will probably ride what feels best and not worry about the material. If it8217s carbon, then fine. (Which, btw, don8217t look down too much on those mass produced carbon frames from Taiwan. Those guys in Taiwan have more experience doing carbon just-about-anything than anyone else in the world. Unless you have some mad genious with a psychic connection to carbon, it8217s highly unlikely anyone else can consistently do as good a job) Maybe you guys should divide yourselves between the clock-beaters the feel-riders. That is, if you8217re obsessed with super lightness and stiffness and acceleration and shedding grams uphill, you probably want carbon8230.with 1500 plus wheels. If you8217re part of the 99 of riders who are NOT serious racers, then you may care more about how the bike feels on the road over thousands of hours than how many fractions of a second you8217re saving in a race against the clock or others. I8217ve ridden and owned literally dozens and dozens of titanium, steel, carbon, and aluminum bikes over 25 years. Many top end metal bikes, and even some special production frames, have extraodinary, tuning-forklike road feel that most carbon frames, fast, light, and stiff as they are, can8217t match. You pays your money and you takes your choice8230. And yes, bits like wheels, tires, saddles, stems, bars, and, of course, forks, plus sizing amp setup, also matter hugely to bike feel and handling. I have a 20-year old Basso with Columbus tubing (steel) and a Trek Madone 4.5. The first time I rode the Trek, I was surprised how much it felt like the Basso. Smooth, low vibration, forgiving. But it is also lighter, stiffer, and does not corrode. Corrosion is the Achilles heel of steel. After riding extensively world-wide, I have used both steel and carbon bikes. When the road turns uphill, the weight penalty is soo severe that steel is never the preferred choice. Descending used to be much better on a steel bike, no longer. All day comfort is also very close when you put on different wheels. The amount of time lost from going up hills on a steel bike is soo significant that I will never consider 90 of steel bikes. The light ones are extremely expensive, and then you can get a carbon bike with better components for less. Plus it rains a lot in the world. It8217s not about the stiffness or being seconds faster, carbon will literally get you there hours earlier with the same effort. I8217ve seen a new carbon frame crushed in a Parks work stand while being assembled. I only own and ride Metal Aluminum, Steel and Ti bikes and Fly an Aluminum Airplane. I don8217t want anything composite except accessories. In 1959, I bought a URAGO bicycle from Roy8217s Cyclery on Pico Blvd. in LA and rode it until a drunk lady in a Caddy customized it so that it worked better in the dump. With the money that she gave me for not reporting it to the cops, I bought another bike a RAPHAEL GEMINIANI SPECIAL also from the same shop. It is equipped with Campy Gran Sport Deraillers, Shifters, Hubs, but had a Stronglite cottered crank with the bike I bought a TA alloy crank and bottom end set has Mafac brakes, and Ideale seat and is constructed of Reynolds 531. The first time that I rode this bike, I thought that I could fly. It was the greatest I rode it for 20 years and my son then took it over, jumped curbs, etc with it but through all that, is not damaged in any way. I made the huge mistake of repainting it, but am able to get the transfers from different sources. I am going to install the TA crank set, and after repainting it, plan to ride it again. I8217ve ridden the Italian steelies, but favor the ride of the old French bikes that I had URAGO and GEMINIANI. I am considering buying a carbon bike and possibly an aluminum bike, and have no idea how they ride or work, but I can say for certain that a good quality steel bike will hold up to just about anything that you can reasonably give it. I8217m glad to see the Bikes come back. I sincerely hope that you have fun riding I sure have George One very important aspect that I haven8217t seen in this excellent discussion is product life cycle. Where does it end up when you are done with it Carbon goes into landfill and sits there indefinitely. Metal (steel, aluminum, titanium) frames can easily be recycled into new consumer products. If you are informed about the environmental challenges we face, and I suspect Road Bike Review readers are, this is another reason to consider a steel frame. We8217re talking about tens of millions of bikes here. I ride a steel Gunnar wOuzo Pro fork (yes, carbon fiber), full Ultegra, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. I ride it hard up and down in the steep Santa Cruz Mountains and love the hell out of it. Nice comment section here. I used to build custom steel frames using Columbus Nivacrom EL tubing. An EL frame Built up with Campy Record carbon 10s carbon bars seat posts fork etc. came in at 17.5lbs. Its obvious what was necessary to offset the weight, CARBON what a surprise. I still have one of my original EL frames WHenry James polished stainless lugs, built up as a sunday bike, but my main ride is a 55cm Lapierre off the shelf frame built up with Campy record and various other carbon components boy does this bike out ride the steel. I have logged over 9k in the past two years. I have cracked the right seat stay and fixed IT yes you can effectively repair carbon its not always a throw it away scenario nor is it rocket science8230I like my old steel but I ride seriously on carbon it gets the job done8230 Yes the guy that will be welding my new CX bike does meet NASA standards, his work on many of the Shuttles. Yes I ride a carbon road bike now, my cross bike is Aluminum and my 20 year old MTB is Ti (and being converted to single speed IF we can get the seat post out). I used to race on steel bikes, yes I broke 3 of them Broke a chain stay, unplugged a bottom bracket and broke a steerer (only the brake bolt was holding it together). I would buy into a argument like: it is a good product built locally by somebody you know not the other side of the planet. I also think this is a dangerous trap you have set, why get a new car, or computer or stove. Almost seems like you work for the UCI, if it was good enough for the Cannibal in 1972 it is good enough now. I8217m the 220lbs you8217re writing about, and I love my carbon fiber. I rode steel framed bikes, laughing at the prices people paid for carbon bikes. My steel bikes generally cost less than a 100 bucks. Then my little bro bought some carbon, I went faster, went uphill easier, never forgot the nimble feel of the carbon bike, but being 6821748243 tall I would have expended gynourmus bucharoos for a frame my size, so I bought aluminum wa carbon fork an rear triangle. Good bike, but then 6 years after my taste of fiber, I found my dreambike in cyberspace, on the computer, so it8217s from the future, basically it was sitting on ebay. After gettiing it (2010 Cannondale Synapse 6, entrylevel carbon), first ride I new this bike was waiting to find me, and I8217ve been in love since. Great handling, excellent breakaway speeds, superb ergonomics, there8217s a reason for everything, and all your energy goes to the rear wheel. I ride my CAnnondale to work, so I save 5.50 a day in gas alone, the 8 months I8217m able to ride it a year, it will take 2 years to pay for itself, but it8217s well worth it. When I pass a steel bike on the trail, they have a scissory sound to them, not the silent swoosh a carbon fiber bike has. One night I was behind a steel bike for a stint, and I watched him and could see how much energy was wasted, how much his bike was flexing for him to maintain the speed he was at, and the less energy it took to power my bike. I couldn8217t help but think if he was on a carbon bike I wouldn8217t be able to keep up with him. Steel cheap and easy. Why do you think all the 8220custom frame builders8221 start with steel. Cheap and easy ubiquitous regardless of any other qualities. For some reason these days steel frames are expensive when the ease of acquisition and machining are taken into account, I think the retro steel movement has driven the price up. I am ok with those myopic enough to think that steel rides better than carbon but I8217ll stick with carbon, so far the only frame material that I have ridden and not broken is carbon (I realize that could change at any moment). In this particular situation the advances in technology are real and produce results. In the last 55 years I have ridden Raleigh, Peugeot, Fuji, Gitane, Leader, Myata, Kabuki Pro road bikes and it was not until I got on my Marinoni custom framed roadie with full Campy group that I realized I had been riding 8216average8217 bikes that at best were only half as good and the Italian custom It was like going from NASCAR to F1, can8217t even describe the difference in words, you gotta ride one to realize what a custom Chromoly frame can do Whoo hoo. There is a lot here, fellas. I8217ve read 75 of what is here. Having just decided it is time to get out and ride again 8230 I am in the market for a smooth riding, predictable road bike. I m 6821718243 and have a 348243 inseam. (Yep, I am a tall gal.) I need to convert about 10 pounds of winter weight into muscle. I used to be a serious recreational rider but that was in college a about 20 years ago. My steel ten speed was a man8217s frame and being about twenty years younger 8230 Pedaling around on a college campus every day was no biggie. Today, I need to get on a bike and I want it to be as responsive and as predictable as possible while I am riding to get back into shape. I do not need falls or spills. And I don8217t want the bike to be super heavy because I already know that straining to keep moving does NOT motivate me to ride. I really hope to find abike to last at. east ten years or more. I work on computers for a living and write 8230 So I prefer not to have my arms be a shock absorber. My budget is 700 1000. I am mechanically inclined but love simplicity. The local bike shop is happy to sell me a Canondale Quick for 2000. But 8230. I maybe am a new re-entrant into serious recreational road bikes, but ouch Two grand is a BIG pile of cash in any economy. Any suggestions There are quite a few bike shops in my area 8230 but they are like the hardware stores 8230 They seem to cater mostly to fellas. I could use some recommendations on what to look for. Thanks Any argument against Carbon bikes should I think include some argument against Petrochemicals in manufacture. Carbon bikes are held together with a thick layer of Petrochemical resin I think this kinda makes a mockery of any ecological benefit derived from using a bike as an every day transport device, you may as well just still the petrol in you car every day. Is this what the Petrochemical company have in mind 8220You can8217t use transport without using petrol8221. Metal bikes can and do get recycled. Plastic bikes do not get recycled, its a simple equation. September 3, 2012 johnvile, I really don8217t think the amount of petrochemical used in manufacturing a bicycle is anything to get overexcited about. Even if everyone in the world had a bike, the difference is not likely to be planet-saving. I have a simple question for people who love to bash steel frame bikes: Which would you rather sit your ass on A frame built out of a material that has been used for at least 2,000 years and is tried, trued and tested multiple times and has a very high success rate at being durable, long lasting, easily repairable and very strong while economically affordable A frame built out of a material that has barely been used for maybe 25 years, (carbon fiber, or plastic bike frame as it has come to be known), where the repair for it is still more expensive than steel and the repair technology is a lot newer than the use of the material itself and has yet to be tried, trued and tested as steel has been A material that has barely been used for the past 200 years, that would be aluminum alloy where when it is dented or broken, forget about repairing it and when riding it you feel like you8217ve been beaten up by the end of the ride because aluminum sucks at absorbing road vibration I trust the mat erial that has been tested time and time again for the last 2,000 years. December 10, 2012 I was in a LBS a few months ago, and a young guy came in covered in bandages and an elbow brace 8211 much skin off and a fractured elbow. The steel fork on the 2nd hand steelie he had just bought broke in the first few hours. RUST never sleeps. It is difficult to know from outside, how much corrosionrust is in steel framesforks. December 10, 2012 Most shouldn8217t worry about the durability of their carbon frames if made within recent years. The resins they use to hold the fibers together have developed more than the carbon. The impact resistance of most manufacturers resins is phenomenal. The only exception to this is the super-lite models because they use so little resin. I choose Fuji8217s C4 carbon over the C10 model because of this, even though it was in my budget. December 16, 2012 Old Article but here is my 2 cents for those reading this. I own every material made for road bikes dating from the past twenty years. Steel rides very nice and is softer than aluminum but heavier. Aluminum is lighter but rides harsher then steel Carbon 20 year old is still doing well handles well but is very close to steel in ride. Carbon from 10 years ago smooth minor flex ok handling New Carbon handling great aero frames best thus far except firm ride. Titanium harsh ride to rigid looks good. December 25, 2012 I like to ride steel because at the end of the day it is easier on my wrists. My aluminum LeMond Toumalet beats me to death. Could be the Gatorskins tho. My Marinoni Special Columbus steel frame is the sweetest ride ever But it seems to be the wheels that make the biggest difference in finding extra speed, expecially the hubsbearingstire combo. My 10 year old Campy hubs laced to Mavic (Wheelsmith) rims are faster than my Eastons or my Aksium Race8217s over a 7 mile course on the same bike by a couple minutes. Something about Italian bearings if that8217s what are in the Campy hubs December 27, 2012 A properly built steel bike (for most people does not have to be custom) with good wheels, equals a great ride. As to rust - spray inside with waxoil. and it will never rust. Scratch - nail polish. Dent, unless you have bent the tube, means nothing. As to weight - Most of the high end carbon bike8217s REAL weight advantage (rotating weight, which is the only thing that counts) comes from 1,500 gram wheelsets, not the difference in frame weight. You want a three pound lighter bike - LOSE THREE POUNDS . Unless you8217re Contador, the rest is MARKETING. The important thing is to ride, eat properly and enjoy December 27, 2012 I forgot the most important consideration - FIT. FIT FIT. Worth spending a few on getting a fit session, or join a club. I am sure you will find someone that knows how to properly adjust your fit. There are many great sites which point the way. By the way, I built frames in the sixties and seventies for serious racers all the way up to Olympic road bikes. Good used steel frames abound on Ebay. I8217ve bought my share Merckx corsa extra, Cinelli super corsa, even a Richard Sachs. None cost more than 900 and were all in nearly showroom condition. If they are made from Columbus SL SLX, Reynolds 853, Trutemper, they should be fine, as long as they are not bent. February 2, 2013 I8217ve put 4,000 miles on my Rocky Mountain ST Solo Classic road bike. It has a modern steel frame and carbon fiber fork. Shifters, brakes, and drive train are Shimano Ultegra. The bike has an exceptionally smooth ride and lets me know what is meant by the words, 8220feel of steel.8221 On three occasions, I8217ve ridden the bike 148 miles per day over a Coast Range mountain pass. Saddle sore at the end of the day, yes, but the frame and fork did their part to make the rides comfortable for someone 70 years old.. 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